AC Lockyer: 0:12

Hey guys, this is AC Lockyer and I've got a treat for you guys from the other side of the pond. Of course, this is Building the Lifestyle Business. Lifestyle business this is presented by SoftWash Systems and we're going over to the UK. A little further north in the UK, to Scotland, I'm actually going to be live and in person with this guy one week from today. I'll be in your shop, and so this is Graeme Palmer with Palmer Trade, Palmer Trade Supplies and also Palmer Cleaning. What's the actual name of your cleaning company, Palmer?

Graeme Palmer: 0:52

Palmer Co. Scotland's Limited.

AC Lockyer: 0:54

Palmer Co. Scotland's Limited. Yeah and so, yeah and so you guys have been in the cleaning business a long time. We're really going to get into that. But real quick here, go ahead and introduce yourself, name your company, where you're at, and give us some biographical information on you. That's not about cleaning what you like to do. You're in your business with your family. Give me the bio stuff.

Graeme Palmer: 1:24

I'm Graeme Palmer and I'm part of Palmer Trade Supplies, who have just become the UK distributor for SoftWash systems, so we're super excited to be part of this journey with yourself.

AC Lockyer: 1:38

Yeah, and that's kind of the new thing right now is, excuse me, is, you do also have another company, Palmer Trade Supplies, but you're in the cleaning business and you know we are doing business together on the software system side and the disruptor manufacturing side, which is really really cool, and so that's a new development. That's why I'm going to be there next week Actually no, I'm sorry about in a few weeks. Actually I'll be over in the UK next week. But, yeah, I'll be seeing you in a few weeks, but that's really great. But tell me about the family and and I know you're in this with your brother and and all that kind of stuff.

Graeme Palmer: 2:19

Yeah, so we're Glasgow based.

Graeme Palmer: 2:21

It was my grandfather who set this company up in 1932. So we're over 90 years in business and we operate throughout Scotland and the northeast of England and we're originally set up as a window cleaning and decorating company. My father then got on board and he took it further and he stopped the decorating side of it and focused on the window cleaning side. So we employ around 40 people on that side of the business and we have a ground team, a rope access team, and we've also got a plant access company as well, so we have cherry pickers or access platforms that are working up to 70 meters in the air. So we have three businesses and the third one, which relates to the soft wash system, was set up in 2018 by my brother and Nicholas, who is a bit of a pioneer into new techniques and came across soft washing, so started using that system as well.

Graeme Palmer: 3:31

So, yeah, we're a third-generation business and, yeah, we're operating through the various techniques, which soft washing is one that we've kind of come across for the past five, six years now. So, yeah, we're, uh, based in Glasgow in Scotland. Um, and that you know we're we've grown up in the cleaning industry. Um, it's kind of ingrained in our our blood and the name of the company as well. So yeah, it was 1932 and that's incredible yeah, 1932.

AC Lockyer: 4:09

I mean I'm a third generation service business entrepreneur. My grandfather was in business, you know, back in the 30s, like your grandfather was, um, actually back even earlier before then. Uh, but he did, you know, literally did appliances and like toasters and you know blenders and you know small appliances and had a small appliance company. Cleaning came, you know just my generation, you know first generation cleaner, but you guys are actually three generation cleaners and you started out. I thought it was really interesting. Window cleaning and decorating, um, tell you know, window cleaning is a real, real popular thing, but I didn't realize about the decorating. Tell me a little bit more about that.

Graeme Palmer: 4:53

That's interesting yeah, so it's like painting and uh well commercially focused as the court and we all have always really maintained a commercial side to the business. We don't really do domestic as such, but yeah, anything really, just there in a living.

Graeme Palmer: 5:13

So, yeah, I'm really proud of my roots, my dad, who sadly passed away a couple of years ago now. He created a good name for himself across our city and as doing things right and having a good name for himself across our city and, as you know, doing things right and, you know, having a good end product there of working hard and you know, delivering for his clients, which Nick has been in the business around 20 years now and he's actually taken it forward through technology with the rope, access, the trucks and, you know, even to the soft washing. So he's really quite engaged in you know doing new techniques and, ultimately, working safely as well. That's the forefront of what we do. He's also got a great name across the industry great name across the industry in the uk for being, you know, working safely at height.

Graeme Palmer: 6:10

So, yeah, we, we got a good core company there and, um, yeah, we're continuously trying to improve, which is why we've come across your product as well. So, um, for example, we used a bowser. When we found out about soft washing or the whole last idea of it came around, we were one of those people that we were creating small batches of you know, using chemicals and doing all the wrong way really. And then two years ago we we bought our first skids um from purple rhino and we, we really we love it and we're hopefully going to get another, actually next year potentially.

AC Lockyer: 6:50

So yeah, that's where we are Is you know the UK is very, very, very different from the US, and so all of our US listeners that are listening to the podcast right now are seeing us on YouTube. It's really different in the UK. Here in the United States, if we can get people to clean their windows once a year, we're doing good. Quarterly window cleanings are rare. The route work on doing windows on a weekly basis or even monthly basis. You might get storefronts on a shopping center that might do that. You might get like storefronts on a shopping center that might do that. But man, you guys over there in the UK are really into window cleaning. I mean, the whole rest of the building can be trashed and the windows clean.

Graeme Palmer: 7:37

What is up with that. Yeah, I think, as you're aware, we met.

AC Lockyer: 7:46

Was that three weeks ago I came to see your business here and you were actually just here in the Orlando Florida area on a nice, nice you we call them vacations, you guys call them holidays a nice holiday over here in the states and you got to come by and visit our offices and, yeah, that was fun yeah, so like that's.

Graeme Palmer: 8:01

One thing I noticed was like the windows across every kind of building. They're just like the windows are like really badly stained, right like you know, thick water deposits on them and, yeah, nobody really cares about that. But within these complexes that you all live in, all your external maintenance has to be pristine, or I think you have issues with you know authorities of you know so like people are repairing roofs, like I watched a company. They were like they change this whole roof in one day and I think if that was in the uk, it'd probably take like three to four weeks. So you know, yeah, yeah, we're really big on cleaning windows, if you know, daily or even weekly some people, but then nobody will clean the roof for like 10 to 15, 20 years or they'll even just replace it rather than actually clean it oh yeah, I mean yeah.

AC Lockyer: 8:55

So the roofs we've cleaned there in the UK you've been decades old, if not literally. We've cleaned some buildings that hadn't been cleaned in the last hundred years. It's been crazy.

Graeme Palmer: 9:08

Yeah, I think one of your previous podcasts was like do you have green in your area? It's like we have a lot of green. We have a lot of organic growth around. Especially where I live in the west of Scotland, it's just rain and constant buildup. Right, the moss is unbelievable. Yeah, really bad, because it's not too bad in particularly Florida, right. So that's where the difference is.

AC Lockyer: 9:38

there is, cleaning your external property is just so key to keeping your value of your property up, and I don't think people quite realize that until it's too late and they have to replace their roofs yeah, I remember one time we were in dover castle and we had brought a couple of our guys from the us over to do some training over there in the in the southeast of england, there in tent and uh, so we were having a training type of of camp there for soft walkers to come to and all and so we took them to Dover Castle to do some tourism kind of stuff, took them to the cliffs of Dover and while we were in Dover Castle they were shooting a video of me and of course the walls are just bossy, so I went into my best Sean Connery Scottish accent, you know know and I'm talking about the moss load on top of the.

AC Lockyer: 10:29

You know, the signs of the walls of the castle, you know, and we coined the phrase the moss load, you know, and it was just, it's hilarious. So the whole time we're going across, you know, england and you know up into the midlands. And then you know, we did some traveling up into scotland. Every time we we see a building, we'd be like, you know, reading the into the Midlands. And then you know we did some traveling up into Scotland. Every time we see a building, we'd be like, you know, reading the moss load on the building. Well, that's a number five, that's a number eight, because how much growth is on the buildings? There is really crazy. And there'll be moss all the way around the windows, but the windows will be gleaming and shiny and you can see out of them and you know, it's just, it's just crazy.

AC Lockyer: 11:07

And so three generations of window cleaning went from your grandfather, your father and then your father to Nick and yourself, and now your two families are living off of this business. Tell me about your family. So obviously I didn't get the chance to meet your wife, your kids, while they were down. You just came to the office but you've got a wife and some kids. Tell me about your wife and kids.

Graeme Palmer: 11:31

Yes, I'm five years now. I'm 37 years old and I've got two young kids One's three and one's one year old, and she got a third on the way. So 2025 is going to be a busier year for me. Be busier, what's?

Graeme Palmer: 11:50

My wife's name is called Fiona. She worked up her diazio the whiskey as well, probably. They do a lot of brands, but one of the most famous is johnny walker whiskey. She works with a company, so she's been working with them for around eight years and she really likes that, so what a great job. Yeah, yeah, I mean she likes whiskey, but, um, she, uh, she's got good work ethic as well. So, um, she's not involved in our business.

Graeme Palmer: 12:21

And I came in here about eight years ago, 2017, 2017.

Graeme Palmer: 12:25

My previous background I worked for Barclays Bank, so I started in Glasgow and then I ended up moving to London for around five to seven years and laterally ended up in New York, the mean streets of Manhattan, and I worked there for just over a year doing leverage finance. And I worked there for just over a year doing leverage finance and, unfortunately, due to my father's ill health, I decided to quit my job there and get back to the family business to help alleviate my mom from that role as well. She worked within the business, so, yeah, I came back in. So it was a big culture change for me and very different to what I'd been doing for the previous eight to ten years. I had not a lot of cleaning actually experience, but then obviously having that business focused as well, like that, helped me kind of come into the business. So I've learned quite a lot as well. Every day is a learning curve and, um, some days are great, some days are really challenging, um, but this is part of life now.

AC Lockyer: 13:31

So yeah, it is part of life and so I from the conversations I've had with you and even just here the. You know nick is really kind of the technical guy and you're kind of more the business and finance guy as far as in the operations. Is that accurate?

Graeme Palmer: 13:48

Yeah, definitely the guy that can take the machines apart and put them all back together, whereas I'm more on the other side looking at finance and boss et cetera. So, yeah, it works quite well. We have a good business relationship relationship. We get on in terms of business really good and, um, we work well together in terms of that gelling like, he's different to me and I bring different ideas to the table. And, yeah, we've continued to grow for the past seven years. We've continued to invest in various things, whether it be the software or SCID or different access platforms. So, yeah, in terms of Palmer Trade Supplies, that's really come on the past three or four years. We started really online and then now we've got a trade counter, we've got warehouse space and we're even now like we probably need more space. So, yeah, it's continuing to go as well. So that's quite exciting and I'll just start, uh, putting our products on amazon as well. So things are getting there on that side as well.

AC Lockyer: 14:56

We just recently made that leap ourselves.

Graeme Palmer: 14:59

Yes, yeah, it's really been quite challenging because you don't you know, you can't always think of everything, get everything right, and even down to the posting and the packaging getting in the right sizes, so you're not paying your margins don't decrease. That's been quite. I've learned a lot from that as well, because I I never had e-commerce experience as well, so I could put all our website products on that and like, day by day, just learning, just doing it.

AC Lockyer: 15:27

Um, the only way to do it is just getting involved and, you know, learning day by day of all the challenges so I'm gonna go back a little bit to Fiona here, okay, so she, she works for the company that owns Johnny Walker, which is an American whiskey, but yes, she lives in Scotland. So because she's in the business, she probably knows a little bit about scotch.

Graeme Palmer: 15:59

Yeah, she knows a lot more than me. I'm not particularly acquainted to whiskey and alcohol doesn't really do me any favors, so I'll leave that one to her. But yeah, she does do a lot of like different campaigns, like the Game of Thrones and things she was involved in they did like a special edition.

AC Lockyer: 16:23

So yeah, although I'm diabetic and I'm not supposed to have any kind of liquor, um I I even before I was diabetic I didn't drink a lot but I really love whiskeys, and the darker and the richer the better, and um so um. Since I know that she's in the biz, I'm looking forward to a good recommendation of a nice single malt scotch, maybe a bottle or two I can bring home as gifts for some of my team here in the States, so maybe we can go on a Scottish whiskey expedition while I'm there.

Graeme Palmer: 17:00

Yeah, definitely. Well, I'll have a nice dram, as they say, here for you, waiting and for your arrival. Don't want you to get too drunk, well yeah, you don't want to.

AC Lockyer: 17:09

Yeah, because the drunk part's not so bad, it's the blood sugar spiking and me going to the hospital would not be a good thing, but a shot won't kill me, so yes.

Graeme Palmer: 17:21

We can make that happen.

AC Lockyer: 17:25

A pint probably would devastate me.

Graeme Palmer: 17:27

Yeah, I'm looking forward to you coming over on the 25th of October so we'll have that open house day where we've generated quite a lot of interest. So that that'll be interesting for people to meet you and I think it will really change people's minds, particularly around where I live and what people are doing and how they really should be doing it. It will be very interesting, I think, as well.

AC Lockyer: 17:55

What's the really interesting part is so there in the UK what we've really really noticed as we've built our business there, we've got I think it's just north of about 20 affiliates there in the UK, you being one of those affiliates, because you guys do have a soft washing division, you do have a soft wash systems truck. There's not a lot of people like you guys that are very business minded. We have a few people. We've got Jonathan, I think, owen with Blue Whale. We got Alex Redworth. We've got just a few companies in there Excel I can't name all of them, but about maybe 25% of our companies.

AC Lockyer: 18:40

There are two to three truck type of operations but there's a lot of owner operators or what I would even call like a side hustle mentality there in the UK. And one of the things I've really tried to work on there in the UK is getting people to realize that when you get into a business whether it be soft wash systems, window cleaning by itself or could be doing gardening, it could be doing interior maid work or whatever it might be a lot of people treat it like a side hustle or a job that they own. They don't really own a business, they own a job.

AC Lockyer: 19:24

And so they're maybe making a little bit more money than they could if they were working for somebody else, but really not much more and they really haven't improved their life that much. And what we're really trying to do is we're really trying to improve people's lives. So when we're bringing these businesses over to the UK, we're putting people in the business in the UK over to the UK. We're putting people in the business in the UK. We're really trying to focus on improving their lives, helping them build a sustainable business, helping them build an asset, something that they can either keep for a lifetime and get a good income out of it and employ some other people, or build it up over a few years and then possibly sell it and be able to retire. Well, if they're at that stage in their life to retire well, if they're at that stage in their life.

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AC Lockyer: 20:39

We look forward to seeing you with our next Open House, and so the aspect of building a business is a little different in the UK, because the UK is not as entrepreneurial as the United States. I mean, you've been to both places, you've not only have holidayed over here, but you actually worked in New York for a while and I'm sure you have noticed the stark difference between, like, an American mindset and a, you know, a UK mindset or even a European. Because, you guys are right, there, next to Europe, the Atlantic Ocean not only is it separates our land masses, but it almost separates is. It separates our land masses, but it almost separates our mindset, our attitudes. Tell me a little bit about the difference in the UK on entrepreneurialism.

Graeme Palmer: 21:38

Yeah, I think you're right with what you're saying there. I think when I worked in America, nobody went home. Work was their life basically, which I get. You have to have a little bit of a balance because you know you can't. You have to find the balance. But yeah, there's definitely a higher drive in America than there is in the UK to you know, you don't just get up and do your 8 hours and go home. You do that an extra and by doing that bit extra you then can have that little extra lifestyle that you you want is the way I also, like I've been brought up. You don't do eight till four or nine till five, like you do till you, till you.

Graeme Palmer: 22:23

You can't do any more really is so you're done yeah, that's my mindset, and when I'm at home as well, like I also have a young family. But work doesn't stop. We have to keep thinking, keep moving and keep investing, and by investing you can then grow as well. So, yeah, definitely would say that the work mentality of America is just really that much higher than than the UK. I don't understand why, um, personally, um, and I am from that background where, like you, have to work to, you know, survive, really right a question as well what do people do these days? Where do they get the money from to live? The cost of everything's just going up every day, like you see yourself, like the packaging from amazon, or like the shipping cost to get things. You know, everything is rising. So, um, as much as everyone wants to earn more money, you've got to work that a lot harder to get that, in my opinion.

AC Lockyer: 23:25

So, yeah, it definitely was taken aback by the work mentality when I I lived in new york as well, which I think is probably higher than maybe being in florida, for example, but you, you probably could tell me more about that well, you know, certainly, um, especially when you're on the island, when you're in long island and you're in the inner city area of new york, uh, especially when you're working down on wall, especially when you're on the island, when you're in Long Island and you're in the inner city area of New York, especially when you're working down on Wall Street and you're in either Midtown or down in the financial district, you've got a lot of people there with hustle and their lives revolve around their job.

AC Lockyer: 23:59

When you come down here to Florida, a lot of people are moving down here. Especially, a lot of people move down from the northeast down here to Florida. We call it Interstate 95 or what our M is, our M95. We call that the Yankee Turnpike, and so all the Yankees are moving down from up north down here to Florida to supposedly slow down. But we usually have to convince them to slow down. They come down here with dirty mouths and they cuss a lot and they get mad and they get all worked up and everything.

AC Lockyer: 24:28

We're like whoa, whoa, slow down. You move down here to Florida to have a slower pace of life and relax and less traffic and watch the grass grow and put some sugar in your iced tea and drink sweet tea, and they laugh, they go. Yeah, that's right. I'm like got to leave the New York in New York, you know, because it is a little different here in Florida. But the work ethic is still here because that American work ethic is still here. So the younger people that haven't retired yet have to hustle to be able to have a good lifestyle and retire. People moving down from New York down here have kind of staked their claim, made their money and they're coming down to relax a little more down in Florida. So there is a difference in the intensity, especially on Long Island versus Florida, but even Florida versus the UK. I do. I look at people in the UK and I go how do they survive? And many, many people just survive in the UK. They do. I look at people in the UK and I go how do they survive? And many, many people just survive in the UK and they depend on the government and they get on the dole and it's sad to see, but what we want people to do is we want people to build a lifestyle business. We want them to build a business that's going to give them the income to help them achieve their life's goals and dreams and have the things in life that they want to have Now.

AC Lockyer: 25:50

For you, you didn't have to start that. You were born into it, so to speak, and we have to make it clear for everybody here you and Nick did not just inherit a company that made you wealthy. You inherited a company that gave you opportunity. You guys have to work in it every day to make sure it does provide an income for you guys, so it's not like you're, you know, third generation wealthy just living off the company. You know the family fortune. You inherited a business, but you still have to get in the boat and paddle every day. You inherited a business, but you still have to get in the boat and paddle every day, and so you didn't have the choice necessarily to become an entrepreneur. It was kind of set up for you. Nonetheless, you're having to work at it. What has that meant for your lifestyle, though?

AC Lockyer: 26:45

How has being an entrepreneur improved your lifestyle?

Graeme Palmer: 26:50

Yeah, I think you're right. I think obviously the core was set up there and we, within the work hard mentality and the ethics we've got core values which we try to adhere to every day.

Graeme Palmer: 26:59

yeah, well, we're not nowhere near that level to be able to sit back and relax every day. We've got, you know, responsibility to our employees to continue to, um, you know, keep growing the company, increasing their kind of life as well with rising costs, keeping their wages up as well and, uh, keeping our business as well with our core clients, and, um, I would say that you know, we've continued to invest in. One of the things is like the soft wash systems product that we've got is we've eliminated the manual handling and labor intensity.

Graeme Palmer: 27:44

We were pressure washing right, which is very labor intensive, very loud and noisy yeah, yeah, I mean, we were stuck in buildings for two or three weeks and now we can take two weeks out of the three there by just soft washing, self-washing. It's incredible, um, but yeah, my lifestyle, yeah, it's good, um, but I want more, and but that I have to work harder, and every I'm trying to. Sometimes you do have to stop and relax a little bit, but it is quite hard. It's like a drug. You just want more, right?

AC Lockyer: 28:19

you want to continue to, to do more so, when you do get a chance to stop and relax, what are some of the things that you enjoy doing?

Graeme Palmer: 28:29

so Nick and I were both skiers. My father was quite into skiing, so we both actually represented Great Britain at skiing, and nationally as well for Scotland. So we're alpine skiers, unfortunately in Scotland there was more rain than snow.

Graeme Palmer: 28:46

So we skied a lot in France and, uh, we traveled quite a lot with the national teams. Nick continued to do it a little longer than me. Um, he kind of went semi well, he was kind of professional for a couple of seasons skiing and I was semi-pro. I was a national champ. We were both national champions as well. So which was you know? That's impressive.

AC Lockyer: 29:14

I mean, I've won a national championship, but I know what it, what kind of work you have to put into making that happen and how driven you have to be to make that happen. So that it doesn't surprise me that translates into your business as well.

Graeme Palmer: 29:28

Yeah, I think when I was 13 years old, we were on training camps in france on my own with my parents. It really actually helped me kind of develop some skills from being there alone and, um, having to just manage yourself as well, and so I'm quite into my skiing. I also like golf. I'm quite a big golfer. Any free time on the weekends, if I am allowed, I will be on the golf course playing.

AC Lockyer: 29:57

You are very, very close to some very, very famous golf courses.

Graeme Palmer: 30:02

Yeah, that's one thing we're very blessed with is, uh, some great golfing. Um, yes, and cause request small nation as well. They're all very accessible. You don't need to drive down a turnpike for hours to get there, right, um the big, the biggie there is st andrews right, or yeah, I mean st andrews is the the home of golf, as they say?

Graeme Palmer: 30:24

so, yeah, that's about a two-hour drive for me. So I was actually. I actually took a friend from new york there about a month ago and he had blue sky and he couldn't believe it. But I said that's not normal. So, um, I'm into my golf. I really like that. It's got a bit of competitive to it and, uh, socially as well, and also good for business as well. I've met it's good for business. Yes, yeah, it's quite a good way to can.

AC Lockyer: 30:49

I'm it's a nice way to get. Get somebody you want to do business with.

Graeme Palmer: 30:53

Yeah, get their undivided attention for about three hours yeah, it's really good and, uh, it's quite a good. I find it quite relaxing as well, because you're too busy, focused on how bad your golf is, and it takes your mind off of business. So, yeah, I like golf and I'm also a football fan, which is soccer to you, so I don't play very much anymore. A little overweight from being in the office, but I follow a local team, arctic thistle here. You won't have heard of them, but they're my local team so I've got allegiance to them. So that's my kind of outside work hobbies, very sporty so you mentioned this, the skiing, um.

Graeme Palmer: 32:09

Yeah, I actually skied in a place called Flane, which is one hour from Annecy actually, so I know that area quite well. I spent a lot of my childhood there, so it's a great area there and I'm sure you'll have fun there. Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. You can maybe go fishing as well, yeah, you know, it's funny.

AC Lockyer: 32:34

As much as I travel, I never get to go fishing where I travel because I don't have my stuff with me. I don't have my boat, you know, I'd have to hire like a local guide and I'm usually going to business appointments and everything. I don't have a lot of time to do it. I would love, you know, like gosh up in Scotland, trout fishing, salmon fishing I guess I can't. Even I've seen pictures of the beautiful winding streams with all the grass and fly fishing, you know, and it's just like, yeah, I'd love to.

Graeme Palmer: 33:08

Yeah, I've never really done fishing, I've always kind of once to. But unfortunately, as you're aware, time is quite precious with different things, with working life.

AC Lockyer: 33:19

Well, you've got small kids, so you're in that own the business and have the family and small kids. So you're in that own the business and have the family and small kids. So your time is really booked up.

Graeme Palmer: 33:28

Yeah, I think I've obviously got two young kids quite close, so Nick is also the same actually. So we've had a lot of pressure outside of work with that as well, because you know you have to help out, and bath time, bed time you want to be there as well. My father was very good with my brother and I. He was very, very engaged with us and I think that's one thing like having that business as well, like being your own boss like he. He actually managed probably more spare time than we actually do, but he was always there for us, which is one thing that I try or will hopefully in a few years time, be able to do as well. Right now, it's quite key because you have to. You know we're really kind of deep inside the business rather than outside looking on it, which is not the right way to be, and we need to get out and overlooking it.

AC Lockyer: 34:19

You know, work on your business, in your business. As you know, the great Michael Gerber says yeah, yeah, I think that's one thing.

Graeme Palmer: 34:26

Um, when we met, I was obviously uh, spent the day with you and I was just I've already said this to you, but I was really taken aback by your whole setup there. I was, uh, obviously hadn't met you before until, uh, that day and hadn't realized what kind of setup you've got and it's very impressive. And one of the things that took out from that was like you've got such great loyal staff around you that Mm-hmm you said this yourself to me was that you can just leave for three weeks and know that you know things are running okay without you being there, which is like something that we need to aspire to as well. That would be great to have that.

AC Lockyer: 35:10

Yeah, it's. You know. Even you sat in. You know I don't have an office at any of my businesses, and so you sat in what we call the droplet hospitality suite. I put the air quotes around it because and we ended up with, you know, our building is divided into different suites with roll up doors and garages in the back and offices in the front, and so when we were shuffling and moving some of our businesses around and taking over more of the buildings around us, we ended up with this one little single office warehouse combo. So that's become. You know, my wife took it over first because she was still is the CFO of the company, but we moved the controller into her office, and so Karen, you know, didn't have to give up her office, but she gave up her office because we really didn't want to be at the business a lot. She had gotten more deeply entrenched around COVID and kind of moved back into the business. And we moved into this little suite. We decorated it like a living room and put a nice big 70 inch TV in there and took one of the offices and put some nice kitchen kind of furniture in there, turn it into a conference room, and so it's a place to come in and crash and have conversations like we had and everything.

AC Lockyer: 36:23

But I always say I'm not going to have an office at the business. I'm not going to have an office at the business. Well, over at Disruptor Manufacturing, on my birthday, a bunch of team members there's an office there that I kind of land in when I'm working over at Disruptor Manufacturing. And so one of the team members, renee, is like have you been to your office yet? I'm like, renee, I don't have an office. Well, you know the place over at Disruptor where you sit usually. And I'm like, yes.

AC Lockyer: 36:50

She says, have you been in there yet? I'm like, no, I haven't been in there yet. She's like, oh well, you really need to go in there. I'm like, okay, she goes, you know it Okay. So I went in there and so she found me this beautiful live edge wooden, organic desk. I mean it's beautiful, it's, it's incredible. And I turned around and looked at her and I went Renee, I'm not supposed to have an office. What do you want me to do with this? It's just beautiful. So I'm going to have to decorate that office and all, and then I'm going to hire somebody to replace myself over there and it'll be their office and they'll be like look at this beautiful desk I have you know.

AC Lockyer: 37:33

But yeah it's funny because we're trying to, and I deliberately do that, because I'm trying to not be at my business every day. You know it's like today, on Thursdays, thursdays and Fridays generally I do all of my meetings and everything from my house.

AC Lockyer: 37:48

Fridays I try to take off and so you've really got to work on that, and I would encourage you to really work on that, especially with having young children, because I'm just going to tell you right now, you will blink and they'll be moving out of the house. And you're going to tell you right now, I, you will blink and they'll be moving out of the house and you're going to go. Where did all the years go, you know? And? And so you're 37. I got started a lot younger than you. I had my last kid when I was 25, and so my wife and I were empty nesters and the kids all moved out of the house by the time we were 45 yeah, I think I'm probably an older father, but I think with my life work to survive, I couldn't have afforded kids back, you know oh, you can never afford kids.

Graeme Palmer: 38:32

You're gonna find that out yeah, I already found that disneyland when my little girl.

Graeme Palmer: 38:38

Cinderella, it's $150. So, yeah, no, I think, like say the day at your premises as well, like just it taught me a few new skills as well of like teamwork, just innovation there. Like at the end, when we're looking at the hose reels and things like that, the level of detail that was going into that, just like all of you coming together and just like you're bored, and all the ideas and then going out and seeing like the hand press of the reels and things like that, was something I think you know you'll never appreciate until you actually go there and see what's going on. Um, so, yeah, that was a great day as well. I really enjoyed your time and learned quite a lot from that as well.

AC Lockyer: 39:25

Well, you know, it's just all in the pursuit of us building a business. It'll create opportunity for other people, but also to create opportunity for us. And so, you know, we're just trying to do things excellent, just like you're trying to do things excellent to build an engine that will propel our ship of opportunity that will support our lifestyle. So you're building the engine to propel your ship of opportunity, to support your lifestyle, and that's what building a lifestyle business is all about. You don't want to overpower your ship of opportunity. You want to build the right size lifestyle business to help you achieve your life's goals and dreams. So what's next for you? What do you see? Yes, you've become a distributor for soft wash systems products, disruptor manufacturing products, all that stuff over there, but you're ostensibly in the cleaning business. You've put these businesses together to support your lifestyle. What's next? Where are you going now? What's the goals for the next five years?

Graeme Palmer: 40:29

Well, in 12 years' time I'll be 50, and I just decided that I want to be retired by the time I'm 50 and enjoy the kind of latter years of my life. That's my goal, actually. One thing I learned was my father uh, he passed away in his early 70s and he didn't really get to enjoy the you know, fruits of his labor and and work that he he put in so like.

Graeme Palmer: 40:56

I don't want to be like that and I want to be around my family. I'm very family orientated person, um, so I would like to spend time with my family and create that business environment that you can just pop in every so often, not just be spent there every day. I think goal pieces, they say, and goals would be just to continue to grow. I think when you are able to grow, like you're doing something right is the way I've kind of been looking at it over the past few years, like we've continued to invest quite heavily in the business as well, to like keep us growing and be able to, you know, do these things that others can and when you do spend x amount on like a soft wash, get the opportunity that that creates for you is, you know it, you know you can do like two roofs in one day rather than one roof with different boots. And my goal really is to to get some more soft wash vans out, because the opportunity of having that is, as far as I'm concerned, in terms of revenue generating, is a lot more than window cleaning.

Graeme Palmer: 42:13

I think I've watched your podcast as well, and previous people have all said that's quite clearly the case. I'm sure you have a lot more figure details in need, but in terms of business, like we'll probably, one thing we've grown is like we started in, like our parents house. We then had a smaller premises. We've got this two premises now and we're probably looking to get bigger premises as well, which is quite a headache as well. I think you're from speaking to you as well. You've had that sort of issue as well, which is quite a headache as well. I think you're from speaking to you as well. You've had that sort of issue as well. Like you constantly need more space, don't you? Constantly?

AC Lockyer: 42:49

yes, If you're growing, it's agriculture, it's a plant. A plant will become root bound. Back when I worked in the nursery industry as a teenager, we would take a tray and put seedlings in a tray and those cups were just little cups and then you move that up to a one gallon pot you know pot, and it would get root bound in that You'd take it out and you would put it in the three gallon pot and it would get root bound in that you take it out and you put it in the seven gallon pot. If you never, if you never step it up to the next size growing environment, the plant will get root bound in the one gallon pot and stay that way forever, stay that size forever. And so, yeah, you've got to get bigger facilities and grow your company and be deliberate about that, Because if you don't continue to grow your company, then your company will stagnate and will go into what's called a death cycle and it'll start to decline, decline, decline, decline. You got to keep moving, you got to keep growing.

Graeme Palmer: 43:49

Yeah, I think, within that as well, as you've got to invest to grow. So, you know, take that risk. If you don't take risk, you're not going to well, you can go the other way, but if you don't take the risk, then you're never going to grow. Well, you can go the other way, but if you don't take the rest, then you're never going to grow. So, yeah, next phases would be to like try and um, continue with what we're doing, investing in the business and I think, from like a personal side, is to take myself out of here so much it's very stressful.

Graeme Palmer: 44:20

The one thing I would say is, though, having my having worked within my family business and not having been involved in that corporate culture, I really like that. I I find sometimes you go in there and you're like a robot, with compliance and various things. You can't actually do any work because you've got so many red tapes preventing you, kind of things. So that I really like that working in the company, like you are your own boss and and you know you don't have to report to anyone. That's just like one of the best things ever and I don't think I'd ever go back to.

AC Lockyer: 44:55

You know, I'd never work if I left this business, I would never go and work for somebody else you know, ultimately, as a entrepreneur, as a business owner, and as you're growing your business, when you're working your way out of the day-to-day of the business, you start to realize that your number one job is to be the visionary, to decide where the business is going to go and then to create a wonderful environment for your team to work in, to buy them all the best tools and all the best technology to do their jobs and keep them safe. And understand that then those team members is your stewardship. They're the asset that you're supposed to be protecting, because your people are your number one most important asset, and just create great opportunity for them. And so the best thing you can do for your team is just, a couple of times a week, walk your entire facility and walk by each and every single employee and just spend a couple of few minutes with them and pay attention to them, shake their hand and thank them for what they're doing for you, and and just make sure that check cashes every week for them, and that's it. And that's it Because if you are the right people, they will run the company and they will take care of you and everything will go smoothly.

AC Lockyer: 46:08

And then, and then you know you do that monday, tuesday, wednesday and thursday. Friday. You know thursday you work from home. Every weekend's a three-day weekend. You can take off a few weeks here or there and you can have a wonderful life if you build a great lifestyle business.

Graeme Palmer: 46:25

Yeah, I think you're probably something we need to think about as a five-year plan. I think right now we're just so in the trenches working with keeping employees happy, delivering for clients. I think one of the things you you know you're right like people around you are so important.

Graeme Palmer: 46:46

We're very lucky We've had people that have worked for us for like 40 years, 30 years, 20 years of service. We try to look after our staff. They're the most important thing of the business and they're vital to day-to-day. So, yeah, you're right, like keeping them happy and giving them the good equipment like that's one thing we do is like we provide them with the best of equipment. Um, you know, that is just vital.

Graeme Palmer: 47:19

Like you don't want to be out there like pressure washing fine, or when you can spray a wand, or yep, you don't be using like a heavy reach moth pole when you can use a lighter carbon one. Just those things like we're constantly looking at in the background of what can we provide. What I mean it works to the the trading shop as well, where we're supplying customers with like the best of quality equipment. You know everything we have in our trade store is the best equipment. We are not supplying cheap stuff that you know break or we want them to have the right thing as well, and that's one thing we're here also like we don't really have. We're not in here, we're here to help everyone as well. Like that's one of the great things about the trade supplies that we set up is like we're now day-to-day interacting with people that would be competitors, like, and they come in and they're like oh, I didn't think you'd, you know, serve us, but like we'll serve anyone, we're here to help.

AC Lockyer: 48:18

We want to be of your we're all the same. Are we just fighting on different fronts?

Graeme Palmer: 48:23

Yeah, 100%, and there's opportunity for everyone. There is so much opportunity out there to have your own lifestyle as well. You don't need to take from anyone. And that's one thing I've learned about the soft washing thing as well From the small time that we've kind of started doing distribution yet we've obviously not started yet because we don't have our equipment yet. One thing I've learned is there is a great community there within and that's probably down to yourself, chris, and that well where people are wanting this and can do this. For example, today I've had our own chemicals which I've passed on to like another uh company that requires chemicals. We, because we don't have this, your stuff yet, but we're here and like that's one of the things we're about trying to help other people, help each other, yeah for sure.

AC Lockyer: 49:15

well, that's cool. So you know it's you just mentioned down in the trenches. So so listen, guys, as we wrap this up and we close out this time here with Graeme, some of you guys are down in the trenches trying to run your business, trying to figure it out, trying to get on top of your business and work on your business not in your business and you don't know quite how to get there. And sometimes you just need to partner up with a great company, like Graeme has here with SoftWash Systems and I realize this isn't supposed to necessarily be a SoftWash Systems infomercial. We're talking about building a lifestyle business, but sometimes you don't want to start from scratch. You just want to bolt on something great that already exists and that can be SoftWash Systems, like Graeme has here. We're helping him grow his lifestyle business. So, Graeme, thank you so much for spending this time with us and being on the podcast.

Graeme Palmer: 50:06

Thank you AC.

AC Lockyer: 50:11

All right guys. So thank you so much for being with us this week and, as always, it's AC Lockyer. This is Building a Lifestyle Business. If you like this, go ahead and hit the like button, go ahead and hit share, go ahead and subscribe so that you can get future podcasts and alerts on those, and we will see you at the next podcast.